don't talk to demagogues

marxist tourist · Administrator Messages: 31

so i went to this festival a couple of days ago and i had this ISRAEL soccer shirt on, i mean later on i was wearing my new HAMBURG shirt that i got from lovely Moehre, - and it was not really surprising to get so much feedback. well feedback is probably the most disgusting term you can use in order to discribe the words that were thrown at me. feedback is most of the time related to positive interaction, and that's not what i got! surprised ? no!

"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen

faulomat · petro kid Messages: 8

hey you lucky ones......you seem to be very happy that you could talk about israel all day.......no problems in luxusbourg???

cynical regards!

---my only aim and desire-to set ALL nations on fire----

merovingian · Visitor

Zitat: marxist tourist

so i went to this festival a couple of days ago and i had this ISRAEL soccer shirt on, i mean later on i was wearing my new HAMBURG shirt that i got from lovely Moehre, - and it was not really surprising to get so much feedback. well feedback is probably the most disgusting term you can use in order to discribe the words that were thrown at me. feedback is most of the time related to positive interaction, and that's not what i got! surprised ? no!

"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen

well, one of the world´s biggest problem is that we are always focusing on a specific nation, a flag, a region or religion, as the enemy. we have to define the real enemy and the real problem better and manage to get to the root. It´s not the Israelis, the Arabs, the Americans or the Germans! It´s not the pure white race believing in Jesus, the Jews believing in God or the Moslems believing in Allah. those people are the real victims!! there are other forces behind the big chaos, who created it to start with. Order out of Chaos, Novo Ordo Seclorum, Illuminati, and so forth...

there was mainly one big family behind the Holocaust, the same family which was behind the US government, and W. Churchill at the same time!!! (f.ex. there exist documents prooving secret meetings with Churchill and Alistair Crowley)

"let me handle the money and I do no care who writes the law!" (Nathan Mayer Baron de Rothshild)

Gast · Created: 2004-04-22, 08:29 AM CET Subject: Re: it's only a shirt

hi merovingian,

please visit your local libary next time, before you gonna post conspiracy shit like that´...

i can´t relax in deutschland
adlerharris

Gast · Created: 2004-04-22, 03:32 PM CET Subject: Re: it's only a shirt

Zitat: Gast

hi merovingian,

please visit your local libary next time, before you gonna post conspiracy shit like that´...

i can´t relax in deutschland
adlerharris

hi Gast,

where´s your argument?? it´s easy to answer like that, my 5 year old cousin can do that! maybe you should look other places than just your local library, I doubt you get wise by just visiting that... do you really think you´re supposed to find some truth in there??? that would be stupid, wouldn´t it?

"conspiracy theory is a term used to prevent further constitutional analysis" (Noam Chomsky)

marxist tourist · Administrator Messages: 31

seems like you're having some fun discussing this subject! today i got a mail in my box talking about that issue and it was all full of "i know better and more about this subject than you do , so i must be right ". i can understand adlerharris his anger as he's confronted to weird argumentations and attacks all the time, i mean since he's from germany and he clearly states that he has got no trust in the post war politics in the country that killed 6 millions jews, killed homosexuals, communists, gypsies and anyone else not being "arian". I don't know where the hell you pulled out this shit about "one big family behind the holocaust", that does not just sound stupid but hey that is what the world once and for all wants to believe (especially in germany and in most muslim countries) in order to get rid of the biggest catastrophy the human being has done by himself! the holocaust, dear unknown writer, is no conspiracy, the holocaust has been more or less the logical outcome of a 2000 year old antisemitism, and that even chomsky did state. the whole discussion about israel can not be compared to any talk about a country, a parlament, a flag or any other anti-libertarian institution or symbol.
what you wrote in your statement is very close to what people like nolte, gibson and many so called intellectuals in the muslim world are preaching every day in order to once and for all get rid of all jews all over the world! as long as antisemitism exists, as long as the world is still under the reign of capitalism and not freed from producing goods the world does not need in order to keep this system alive, and as long as religion is more important than enlightment, the state of israel has to exist in order to protect jewish people ! by the way israel is the only state on this planet that was created in order to protect people ! no other country ever had such an aim ! NEVER¨
100% pro ISRAEL!

"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen

adlerharris · petro kid Messages: 7

hi,
so where are your arguments then..
i don´t believe in bullshit like that and i think it is really dangerous what you are saying... the people behind the holocaust where the germans and no one else and thats the truth... it was the american army, the russian army and many more, who liberated europe from facism. those kind of theories are most of the time nothing more than antisemitic pamphlets, to blame jewish people for all the suffering in the world and its for people, who can´t deal with the truth, cause this hurts sometimes and it doesn`t fit in the smallmind black and white thinking most of the people (also the so called ´´left wing´´ people) have. conspiracy theories are reactionary and nothing more....

merovingian · Visitor

hi there,

sorry adlerharris, I do not mean to hurt any feelings or write any dangerous stuff here, I´m just speaking my mind. believe me I´ve studied my local libraries a lot, I´ve had a seat on an editorial board of only a student magazine, and I can tell you, there is so much truth cut away in everything published, which never hits the public eye and never is supposed to. I almost got fired because I wrote an article about East-Timor and how the media was controlled on that subject. and that is today in 2004...

What I wrote is no Anti-Semitism, and for God´s sake do not put me in the same boat as nolte and gibson... My brother is a Jew and I love him, I got some Jewish friends and they are wonderful. But they, as well as very known and respected professors and independant researchers have shown, know, or claim they know, that the only one that did make profit on the holocaust were the bankers Rothshild. They controlled at that time the biggest Central Banks in Europe and USA, and had played the same game in Waterloo with Napoleon. Lended money to the both sides of the war. There are a lot of documentaries on that subject, like Money-Masters, which I recommand you´ll have a look at. No Anti-Semitism, just facts! (If I don´t like G. W. Bush, does that mean I have to hate the rest of America?? those 250 millions of multi-coloured, multi-cultural, multi-national lovely human beings???) I know a lot of Germans (am I allowed to like some of them if I´ve never liked Hitler?), I was almost married into a German family, with whom I lived a lot of my time. Those people suffered and still suffer because of this. You, Adlerharris, should know exactly what I´m talking about.

It is often said that the Germans today, not to mention all the Jews and all the other victims at that time, are suffering from the deeds of One Man. well that guy was a mediatric austrian, half-Jewish painter! how the hell would he get the idea, the power, the will and the opportunity to get the whole thing that far???

and yes, marxist tourist, the holocaust has been more or less the logical outcome of a 2000 year old antisemitism, in one way, if you believe that Jesus never died on the cross, but then the whole New Testament would be a huge conspiracy. I´m not saying that is false, not at all. I believe even more in those theories that Jesus´s children were married into the French Dynasty, than the way the New Testament states how that whole story went! any mel gibson there?? hmm... in another way, there could be a possibility that all this built-up Anti-Semitism, was used to perform the Holocaust, in the beginning at least. I wouldn´t say it was the logical outcome... a lot of those Nazis were blind and many of them had no sense of decency or care for life, no fucking doubt, but... logical outcome... well I could be wrong of course!

The Jews must be protected, no doubt! But the Palestinians have, as far as I am concerned, the same right to live, to breathe, and to be free! that´s why it´s very difficult to put yourself on one side, because as soon as you do that, you become unfair to the other side, which is suffering just as much. that´s why I say that the real enemy does not have a specific flag, but is often the profit-maker behind the scene, controlling the flags, spilling blood in the name of a specific God or a specific nation, for their own personal benefice.

"I have no name... I come from nowhere..."

(Max Cavallera)

p.s. what about Israel´s nuclear plans? they are still producing nuclear weapons, and I´m sure you remember Mordechai Vanunu, who just got out of jail a couple of days ago (after 18 years!!!) for leaking information about Israel´s nuclear production into the media. He was in jail since the mid nineties for telling the truth..... do not forget who controls the biggest part of the Western media. (still no Anti-Semitism!! there is a big difference between the Israeli government with Sharon steering the wheel and the Israeli people) The Israelis (their government!) have never engaged in any international cooperation about nuclear weapons, they have never signed any international contract nor let the international society inspect their plans. So, why do we attack Iraq? Why do we threaten Syria, Iran, Northern-Korea and so forth??? Is there no Anti-Islamism, if I can call it like that, involved there???

"Freedom of speach is not about only saying what others want to hear, it gives you the right to say what others don´t want to hear!"

marxist tourist · Administrator Messages: 31

i am not the advocate of the israeli government but i sure know that the world keeps looking at israel as the root of all evil whilst their own local politicians are more or less free to do whatever shit they want! why blame israel when your own government, let's say in my case Luxemburg, is using the same old strategies and stereotypied propaganda to make their citizens believe that the system built on useless production is the only way to live! Considering the fact that the population of Israel is under a constant threat since the state does exist, remember the first war against Israel and the jewish population was proclaimed by Syria, Egypt, Jordania and the Lebanon one day after the proclaimation of the israeli state by david ben gurion. I mean we do not have to talk about the power of nuclear weapons and these instruments of massmurder can do but hey, do you really think that israel wants to conquer the world with those weapons or have you ever thought about the fact that those might be used in the worst case scenario to defend the people of Israel ? You studied your books and sure must have noticed that the jewish people have never tried to spread the jewish religion all over the world and make it the one and only spiritual inspiration for people. well one can not say that about christianism and the islam. Israel is not an empire, that seeks for a bigger territorial suppremacy, not like europe and it's main driving force Germany.
don't get me wrong on this but you're actually moving on a very thin line with your arguments that can easily push you in a very dangerous position. don't worry we won't come over and beat the shit out of you

.

"no germans, no holocaust." daniel j. goldhagen

merovingian · Visitor

I´ve clearly been wasting my time here... If I´m wasting yours I apologize! I would like to hear you although explain the thin line!! or come and beat the shit out of me

Isn´t the capitalistic system you mentioned, depending on useless mass-production, an empire??? I think it is. I, personally, rather have idiots on my door-step talking about Jehowa, or meet people in the streets telling me interesting or boring stories about Allah, than paying the banks for lending THEM money with using my debit-card!!

I also find the whole idea behind the One God who never forgives and only punishes rather cruel and I´d like to stick to my all loving Jesus if I may. thank you very much. adios